Defending Chris Brown and Domestic Abuse

Cathy: while I acknowledge the need to criticise Domestic Violence with all the fibre in our bodies, shouldnt we understand that in a heated argument, one retaliate to a slap from a woman with a more brutal hit? What we then need to encourage is conflict managent skills from coples not always rubbish the person who might have committed such in retaliation.

Domestic Violence Laws in general are skewed special interest pools. Meaning, they divert special earmarks for biased rule-making. We already have regular assault laws and a criminal justice system built on “innocent until proven guilty” which is not always true in these special courts with special laws meant to “fast-track” conviction. They circumvent real due process in lieu of obtaining funding from the federal government. We need to stop these special interest laws and rely on the rules that are already there and stop making “exceptions” the rule.

Lary Holland

What do you think is the worst thing about Domestic Violence? For that matter, what was the worst thing about slavery, about the concentration camps of the Holocaust? Was it the capture and removal from one’s family? The lack of freedom? The beatings? The meager food and dismal shelter? The long hours of degrading work?

I believe, as Holocaust survivor Victor Frankl relates in “Man’s Search for Meaning,” the most horrible aspect of the concentration camps was the injustice. And my main problem with the concept of slavery is the injustice.

So it is with Domestic Violence. The injustice of a slap is just as severe as the injustice of a punch. Emotional scars often last far longer than physical ones.

Don’t call me a star-struck fan; I never heard of Rihanna or Chris Brown before the recent news. But I have heard of the injustice of Domestic Violence – a lot. And it bothers me that the female-on-male Domestic Violence is downplayed.

Because, as Martin Luther King, Jr., once said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

Cathy,

Why are you only concerned about violence from one angle? It so often seems to me that the feminist moto should read as: “There’s no excuse for abuse – unless you’re female”.

Ultimately, she started it in addition to passing an infection to the man.

Now, had the sexes been reversed, don’t tell me you wouldn’t justify in your mind her assaulting him for having given her a sexual infection.

A man is still allowed to defend himself, right?

There are over 150 studies confirming what feminists don’t want the world to know; that women initiate the majority of domestic violence.

I don’t recall the names off hand, but I believe Dutton is one and even Murray Struass’ has several indicating precisely what Ms Stodard pointed out.

Trying to shame people and implying they condone violence against women only (while you seem to be happily condoning violence against men only) is out of order and a demonstration of your underhanded tactics.

Peter, you are right, it is about conflict resolution and learning better relationship skills.

The problem is, you can’t get people to work together to understand that.

To all you who were sent here by Teri Stoddard. I find it strange that you comment on blogs and question my motives when it comes to reporting about domestic abuse yet, you overlook the blog post about abuse of men.

Look at the blog post below this one…”When Women Abuse Men.” Why no comments on that post?

Why the need to accuse me of being “underhanded” and condoning of abuse against men when you haven’t even read the majority of what is written on this site about domestic abuse?

There are two sides to the issue of domestic violence. You folks have chosen to take one side. I’ve chosen to cover both sides.

That is the injustice…that folks like you think this is an issue in which sides should be taken. Instead of realizing that this is an issue in which everyone should come together to try and solve a problem.

You disparage anyone who reports on abuse against women and takes on the cause of helping abused women. Yet, you are guilty of the same thing they are guilty. It is like the pot calling the kettle black!

“Now, had the sexes been reversed, don’t tell me you wouldn’t justify in your mind her assaulting him for having given her a sexual infection.”

I will tell you that I would not justify her assaulting him…for any reason. You see, unlike you I don’t believe that violence can or should be condoned for any reason.

If you read all my articles and not just a few you will learn that I don’t feel it justified ever.

Until you’ve done that you don’t have a right to an opinion about my reporting on this or any other issue.

Cathy, you say you know the truth about domestic violence. You post articles about male victims. So, can you tell me why you assumed I was defending an abuser?

I have never defended an abuser, of either gender. The reason I advocate for male victims is because women have billions of dollars in VAWA funded assistance. They don’t need my help. Men, on the other hand do.

Men have had to sue domestic violence shelters to get help. Can you imagine if the genders were reversed? Think of the outrage we’d see.

CA laws discriminate against battered men
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=6454094

I am not a star-struck fan of Chris Brown. I happen to be a fan of Rihanna. I’ve been following her career from before she became famous. I hesitated writing anything about this case, because of my admiration for Rihanna.

But the truth must be told. From what I can tell, you still have not acknowledged that her slapping Chris while he was driving was not only dangerous, but domestic violence. This is the problem I have with your article.

“Where I would like to know is where she gets her statistics from. In “MOST” cases the female strikes first?”

Cathy, I sent a reply that included the answer to this question yet I do not see it here. It included information from the Center of Disease Control and university studies which are far more accurate then studies coming from those who have something to gain and each of them shows that women hit first and actually, they are the only ones that hit in most abuse situations.

Although I am the founder and director of Shattered Men, I am NOT a MRA. I am a family rights activist and I believe that instead of fighting for the rights of any specific group we should be working for real equal rights for everyone. The big problem, groups such as NOW want the rights but none of the responsibility that goes with rights.

One of the major reasons we will NOT resolve domestic abuse is the Violence Against Women Act. Then again, our society does not really want to resolve it, or it would be the Family Violence Act

http://www.shatterdmen.com/VAWA%20too.htm

I will tell you that I would not justify her assaulting him…for any reason. You see, unlike you I don’t believe that violence can or should be condoned for any reason.

Cathy, you are 100% right in the statement above.

We have many women in Shattered Men too and half of our leadership are women. We have often stated that NO verbal argument should resort to physical means to resolve it but look at society in general and you will find many excuses of physical violence to men given to women.

How many sitcoms and movies about relationships between men and women do not involve the men getting slapped or kicked at some point? Do we not teach girls that it is cute when they hit boys while we tell boys that they should never hit girls? How about the “Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them” shirts? Cathy, from what I have seen you say, I doubt that you thought these things were right either but until society learns to value EACH person, regardless of color, religion or gender, we will keep these problems going.

Until we do see equal protection under the law…and this means trashing VAWA as it has made it more dangerous for more women then it has helped then this problem will only get worse. Yes, I do speak up for abused men more then I do women but this is because men have very few speaking out for them. In fact, in our interactive group, from time to time someone comes along and suggests that Shattered Men be called Shattered Lives or something gender neutral. It has always been the women in Shattered Men that have responded with a loud…NO we have to keep it the way it is because we do have other places to go, men do not. I will admit here that we are a faith based group and I have not seen ANY other “Christian” group that addresses abused men and we have been ignored by most Christian ministries and media. I do contend that there is only ONE real solution to abuse….a right relationship with our creator.

http://www.shatterdmen.com/first_step.htm

Cathy,

Please do not misunderstand my concerns. I do not condone violence against men or women. However, as Teri has made note of, women get extraordinary levels of help while men get none.

I’ve been the victim of d/v inflicted by my ex-wife, I’ve lost everything I had; my home, my daughter, my confidence…

Because of the way police are ‘trained’ – by feminist groups – I was never considered for any help, despite being an immigrant with no means to support myself. They walked.

I’ve also seen my Sister abused and helped her when she was going through it. Unfortunately, when it was ‘my turn’, I was in America (I’m from England) and so none of my family could help, though they were aware.

You shouldn’t try to put words in people’s mouths – pretending I condone violence. It’s very underhanded and very disrespectful.

Dear Ms Meyer,

This is Ms. Teri Stoddard’s text:

Submitted by teri stoddard (not verified) on Mon, 02/16/2009 – 4:30pm.

‘According to RADARonline.com, Rihanna was the first one to strike. She slapped him while he was driving. WHY HAVE YOU, ALONG WITH MOST MEDIA OUTLETS, IGNORED THIS FACT? Marc Angellucci, esq. has communicated with you about female abuse on males. He has sued a Sacramento emergency abuse shelter for refusing to help fathers and their children. THEY WON. (Oct 2008, woods case) They have PROVEN that women abuse as often as men do, and that they inflict great harm to their male partners. Please don’t allow your history to influence your writing. Please be impartial when reporting this and other cases. If we aren’t honest, more children will be harmed by false allegations. Women who abuse often tell the police that they were the victims. In MOST cases involving young people, the female strikes first. In MOST cases, as in this case, the retaliatory strike causes more damage than the first strike (no matter the gender.) We teach boys not to hit back. Who will teach girls not to strike in the first place?’

Here I’ll be simple and short but precise by quoting one of Teri’s phrases:

‘Please be impartial when reporting this and other cases.’

Ms. Teri Stoddard has never been pro violence either is she in this situation. Before, she was very clear calling the attention to the origin and the originator of the problem. She swam up the river and pointed out the source of the issue and its solution by asking clearly:

‘Who will teach girls not to strike in the first place?’

This is the so called compassive communication and conflict solving. Instead of mending things afterwards, let’s prevent the problem before it happens through EDUCATION. This is the magical password for this recurrent problem.

The best way to resolve any conflict is first by keeping our feet on the ground and our heads above our shoulders. This prevents loads of harm, misunderstoods, manipulation and unuseful stress.

it sounds like, leading up to the Grammys, there was growing tension between Chris Brown and Rihanna that led to the abuse incident; still no excuse

None of the sides can be excused when they are disrespectful, abusive and violent towards their partner.

By the way, excusing is always bad I’d say, while forgiving is always welcome. Excusing is finding a way to eliminate responsibility over the one who made the mistake. This is not a way towards improvement and evolution, but towards passiveness by remaining stuck in one’s own mistakes, licking one’s own faults, misdeeds and weakensses.

Still, forgiving does not mean forgetting or trusting again or going back to the realtionship. Forgiving means simply understanding the obscurancy in the other part and full stop that led them to act this or that way.

Excusing and forgiving are internal, they have to do with one’s conscience, while giving amnisty is external for it has to do with external instruments to regulate society.

Actually excuse and amnisty are the same. One is internal and the other is external, but they act the same way.

And, finally, after forgiving one has to look honestly at one’s own path of improvement, check one’s own participation in the creation of the fact, no matter which one and both, stop talking about the issue and prevent silenting about it too. But always work towards resolving it and promoting real changes from the inside.

Only then, we shall have real changes in the outside.

In the case of domestic violence, yes we have to identify carefully the source and the starters of the problem, stop blablaing about it and work to perfect ourselves or nothing will change and this will simply go on and on.

Now I ask a question: where is evil from?

cathy,

I sent you several links to prove my statements, but I don’t see them here. Here’s another:

This study, http://www.upi.com/Consumer_Health_Daily/Briefing/2007/06/27/teen_violence_predicts_domestic_violence/9952/
published in the journal Violence and Victims showed that nearly twice as many women as men said they perpetrated domestic violence in the past year, including kicking, biting or punching a partner, threatening to hit or throw something at a partner, and pushing, grabbing or shoving a partner.

teri

Obviously Ms. Stoddard has never been in an abusive relationship. As a battered wife, I can assure you that 99.9% of the time I did not issue the first blow.

Part of what came with the violence was my ex blaming me for “setting him off”. So much so, that it got to the point where I wondered if I actually WERE to blame. Mind you, I wasn’t perfect by any means, but it was never a reason to beat me down or threaten my life.

Nobody has any business saying anything about domestic violence until they’ve been in that situation. It’s scary, it causes physical AND emotional scars, and mentally breaks someone with controlling behaviors.

Don the 14% er is absolutely correct. It is also correct that we need to find proper resolutions for couples conflicts before it turns physical. No matter who strikes who first.

Dear Amy,

I have been in an abusive relationship and can state that if I’ve been through it it was because I myself entered that situation volunteerly. I contributed for that state of things. And I only left it for my free-will and personal decision.

So if your ex blamed you for setting him off, there it was the moment for you to stop and check what you both are, what you both were doing, what you both were doing together and what you both were doing to one another.

When it comes to domestic violence it is absolutely important to focus on the solution and not on the problem.

We all know that the problem exists and starts and happens to both sides, male and female. So guess it is time to stop falling in love for statistics and focus on what can prevent, stop and resolve this issue and help recover people who have been through this dramatic experience.

Jean-Marie Muller wrote in his dicitonary: ‘violence dehumanizes both, victim and aggressor.’ It is far too humiliating experience for a species that claims to be inteligent.

So please, let’s focus on teaching the whole people to stop at the first sign of abuse and prevent a lot of harm to the whole human kind.
‘Don’t ask who the bells ring for. They ring for you.’

I have been reading this newsletter since August 2000, which is when my ex-wife left me after my arrest for domestic violence against her. What happened still baffles me, because she was the one who instigated the underlying verbal argument and eventually escalated it to the point where she stabbed me twice with a 15-inch carving fork. While we were struggling over control of the fork, she lost her balance and fell. In an attempt to keep her from hitting her head, I grabbed for her and caught her by the arm. She kept falling and I twisted her arm, breaking her elbow. I immediately took her to the ER, where she told the clerk that her injury was non-accidental, which resulted in the police being called and my subsequent arrest. When I told the officer what happened, his response was that I should have walked away when she stabbed me, since there was no penetration. I found his comments baffling, since one of the first things I was taught at the police academy more than thirty years ago was to never turn my back on an armed suspect. My ex-wife subsequently divorced me and her version of the events that transpired were taken as gospel.

As a result, I finally faced a number of events that I had deliberately ignored during our twenty-eight year marriage, starting with the knife she threatened me with during the first year we were married, to the slaps, punches, kicks, and additional threats against my person with other sharp objects over the years, in addition to her threats to injure herself. Even as a college educated, trained, and experienced police officer and investigator, I missed all of the clues because I did not want to see them. I even went so far as to accept all of the blame for what transpired. I the end, it took months of therapy for me to accept responsibility for just my actions, not hers, and to stop blaming myself for everything. Now, nine years after my marriage imploded in violence, I still have difficulty understanding what happened because I was ingrained with the idea that only men are domestic abusers and women, no matter, are the victims.

As I moved through the system, it was apparent that a man who was attacked by a woman was an irrelevancy that was not worth dealing with until he wound up dead on a table at the morgue. Only then is the concept of a woman attacker accepted as a valid concept, which by then, is to late for anything to done. Yet when other women heard my story, none of them were surprised and many admitted it was quite common for women to initiate the violence that occurred in many relationships. It’s just that women are given the benefit of the doubt because of society’s belief that women are incapable of perpetuating domestic abuse.

Cathy,
As I read through all of these blogs, I find it disheartening that people are straying in my opinion from the point you made. I believe you were not taking just one side of the issue but referring to how it is not acceptable to lay a hand on another personrather they are male or female.I was a victim of Domestic Violence and almost died at my husbands hand. I was able to attend Domestic Violence classes and learned that Domestic Violence does happen to all people, rather of their color, social class, religious beliefs etc. It is unacceptable plain and simple, rather Rhianna hit him first or gave him a STD it is unexcuseable. As for Terri Stoddards comment, the decision is still out if Rhianna will be charged with DV as well. Let’s not confuse stardom with what is right and what is wrong.
I am just shocked that anyone would defend the actions of a person or two people in this case hitting each other and stating “well, she hit him first.” Didn’t your mother ever teach you two wrongs do not make a right?

As A LifeCoach I deal with this type of dysfunction everyday. Both are wrong. Hitting of any type regardless of gender is abusive and wrong. Chris may seem like the most at fault, but she stays with him, which makes her 50% of the problem and 50% responsible. Healthy people walk (or run) from inappropriate behavior. Codependent individuals, men or women, stay and then play the victim. I am just watching to see if she stays, because if she does, she is saying that is OK. acodependencysupportgroup on yahoo groups is a great place to learn more about it, and those who came from dysfunctional families growing up are all a step away from abusive behavior…which comes in many different forms. Susan McKenna, Life Coach.

Amy,
Whether or not my past or yours includes being a victim has absolutely no bearing on the facts. Your reaction is quite common, though. Women victims speak out often. Rarely do we hear from male victims.

David,
Thank you for sharing your story. There are men with similar stories all across America. Many of them have lost all contact with the children they love due to false allegations of abuse.

Dannie,
Treating each person involved equally would be ideal. I haven’t heard if photos were taken of Chris Brown.

What we all must realize, come to terms with, and adjust our dv services to accommodate:

Studies show half of domestic violence incidents are mutual. Here comes the kicker… in 70% of the remaining cases, the female is the perpetrator.

I don’t know anything about this Chris Brown/Rhianna domestic abuse deal. I don’t follow celebrity lives. From the picture I saw of them he looks a lot bigger than she does. So, even if she hit him first, was that an excuse for him to beat her up? I gathered she was pretty badly beaten up. What did he look like I wonder after her little slap? I doubt very seriously if there was any mark at all. It seems ridiculous to say that she was the one at fault for his actions.
i didn’t have any brothers when growing up, so I got this skewed notion that men were too tough to be bothered unduly by a little slap. I found out how wrong that was when I slapped my husband. it’s true in lots of movies they show women slapping men. It is implied that it is the female prerogative to slap unruly men and that the men just take it “like a man” and respond either by being duly chastised or else say grabbing her arm and threatening to spank her. Ooh, how romantic and sexy! Not in REAL life it’s not!
My husband just about went ballistic when I slapped him. He wasn’t suitably chastised nor did he respond with a little light domination. Even when I was being flirtatious and teasing he got mad.
When we fought my husband really didn’t know when to back off and give me a breather like when the bell rings and you go to your corners. When he argued, he argued to win not to clear the air. He pulled no punches. I guess like a cornered wild animal I would lash out sometimes by pushing him or punching his arm. I don’t think I hurt him, but it made him mad. For that matter he one time threw a glass of tea on me. He has pushed me before. I think he hit me on the arm once or twice. I wouldn’t say either of us is guilty of physical abuse. We didn’t actually hurt each other. It wasn’t a good thing to do, though. I think it was a symptom that we were not fighting fair. We needed coaching in how to argue fairly with a view to hearing what the other person is really saying and how they feel, so that an understanding can be reached.
The point I’m getting to is that there is a difference between beating the heck out of somebody or threatening dire harm on the one hand, and on the other lashing out with some token physical response out of hurt and desperation. I think the former is motivated by a desire to dominate and the feeling that the perpetrator is the only one of importance. The latter is motivated more by frustration and hurt.
It seems like a domestic abuse situation happens because one partner is quite a bit stronger than the other and is willing to use this to harm the other. Most of the time women are not stronger than their husbands. The one who is weaker is naturally going to be afraid of the stronger one if that stronger one is willing to use their strength to harm the other. How could a weaker one really instill the same kind of fear and vulnerability in a stronger one?

I was abused both mentally and physically by my ex-wife. I believe that she has a personality disorder. I tried to get her help, but it was no use. She rejected several therapists. She was unable to admit that she had any problems.

After an incident, where she was out of control and violent in front of our child – I decided that that was the last straw. I filed for divorce and moved out. She got a bogus restraining order put on me and accused me of the abuse. She had friends who knew the system and I went through the meat grinder. I was the victim, yet because I am a man I was treated like the abuser.

I have since remarried and my ex has continued to lie to the courts about me. She has tried to stop me from seeing my child based on false accusations.

The courts are very biased towards women. My ex has a whole army of victim’s advocates, etc… I have no one. When my therapist called the court to set me up with someone – they said the only one that they had for men was a gay men’s victim’s advocate – Thanks a lot!

The biggest issue in my opinion is that there needs to be a level playing field. Men should not be considered abusers just because of their gender. Why are women’s lies in court so easily believed?

Men abuse, women abuse. Let’s reform the system so that everyone is considered innocent UNTIL PROVEN guilty. I always thought that was the American way – until it happened to me.

Karl is an absolute idiot – my guess is you hit women Karl or you won’t be defending it. You disgust me you woman hating nothing. You are the reason violence continues. Rot in hell.

Dear Sofie,

Here are Karl texts:

‘Cathy,

Why are you only concerned about violence from one angle? It so often seems to me that the feminist moto should read as: “There’s no excuse for abuse – unless you’re female”.

Ultimately, she started it in addition to passing an infection to the man.

Now, had the sexes been reversed, don’t tell me you wouldn’t justify in your mind her assaulting him for having given her a sexual infection.

A man is still allowed to defend himself, right?

There are over 150 studies confirming what feminists don’t want the world to know; that women initiate the majority of domestic violence.

I don’t recall the names off hand, but I believe Dutton is one and even Murray Struass’ has several indicating precisely what Ms Stodard pointed out.

Trying to shame people and implying they condone violence against women only (while you seem to be happily condoning violence against men only) is out of order and a demonstration of your underhanded tactics.’

‘ Cathy,

Please do not misunderstand my concerns. I do not condone violence against men or women. However, as Teri has made note of, women get extraordinary levels of help while men get none.

I’ve been the victim of d/v inflicted by my ex-wife, I’ve lost everything I had; my home, my daughter, my confidence…

Because of the way police are ‘trained’ – by feminist groups – I was never considered for any help, despite being an immigrant with no means to support myself. They walked.

I’ve also seen my Sister abused and helped her when she was going through it. Unfortunately, when it was ‘my turn’, I was in America (I’m from England) and so none of my family could help, though they were aware.

You shouldn’t try to put words in people’s mouths – pretending I condone violence. It’s very underhanded and very disrespectful.’

Honestly speaking, I don’t see a word that can indicate what you state about him.

Again, let’s always keep our feet on the ground, our heads above our shoulders and be impartial when we wirte, read or reply, please.

And let’s focus on the solution instead of the problem. Who focuses on the solution wants to resolve the issue. Who focuses on the problem wants to take profit of it.

Please, let’s skip the personal level of conversation as much as we can and focus the common denominator which is violence in all its forms and their consequences on each one fo us.

Wish all of us, our ancestors and our descendents find, experience and live in Deep Peace and True Happiness.

Re: “According to Ms. Stoddard, “In MOST cases involving young people, the female strikes first. In MOST cases, as in this case, the retaliatory strike causes more damage than the first strike (no matter the gender.)” Where I would like to know is where she gets her statistics from. In “MOST” cases the female strikes first?”

For some recent statistics from one conflict study see Psychiatric News, August 3, 2007, article “Men Shouldn’t Be Overlooked as Victims of Partner Violence” ( http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/42/15/31-a ). It uses Center for Disease Control data and reports that:
– 24% of young heterosexual adults report violence in their relationship,
– 12% were reciprocally violent (both male and female perpetrators),
– 8.5% had sole female perpetrators, and
– 3.5% had sole male perpetrators.
Other studies have found similar results although usually the percent of male and female sole perpetrators is closer to equal.

I agree violence is not justified, except as self defense. If the other initiates and a person can physically walk away, they should.

I won’t prejudge the Rihanna/Brown situation, but statistically in their age group it is most likely the DV is mutual. The second most likely scenario is Rihanna initiated, and the third most likely (still significant) is that Brown initiated.

In all situations women are nearly twice as likely to report injury.

Chris Brown beat her up period. If she slapped his face she was wrong in doing so, but she did not beat him up. Look at the two of the “After” pictures and see who was abused.
Love does not equal a Punch to the Face. I don’t care how hot headed someone gets you don’t beat the living hell, choke someone almost unconscious..you don’t even do that to someone you dislike, let alone claim to love.
If she does not have the sense to charge him, the courts sure better do it as this dangerous boy-child needs to go to jail. She needs counselling to help her see she is worthy of a good relationship. He does not respect her, he will eventually cheat on her and leave her anyway, because he does not respect her or love her. he may be jealous of her better career than his and deep down resentful and trying to destroy it, who knows what his problem is, but he is definitely an abusive person. Hopefully he leaves her sooner rather than later for her sake in the long run.

There is no excuse for any violence.

It meeans that emotions have overwhelmed logic.

The desire to judge a first strike from a woman as lesser than a worse strike from a man, ignores that both individuals need help.

When country’s declare war on one another based on the aforementioned, is there a good excuse.

Time to recognize that both parties need counseling to deal with the root problem and locking them up is not a solution, but a delay in dealing with those emotions.

Your right, hitting is wrong. But why is it that when the woman hits first and the man hits back, it’s the man who is charged with a crime and not the woman? That is the inconsistency that is objectionable. The justice system has decided that the severity of the injury determines who is a criminal instead of charging both. Maybe if more women spent the night in jail, they would learn that it is not OK to initiate a fight by slapping a man and then hiding behind the weaker sex defense.

Some of these comments are quite disturbing. It’s true that some men are victims of domestic abuse and that is wrong. But by and large, the great majority of victims are women. Plus men are physically more powerful than women, it is never a fair fight.

Couples fight and sometimes things get out of hand. But what Chris Brown did was excessive, abnormal and just plain cruel. Sorry to fans but just because he’s a singer doesn’t make him a good person. He needs consequences and therapy for his actions, not a bunch of excuses.

And after all, they went for reconciliation. Love is beautiful, isn’t it?

Re: “by and large, the great majority of victims are women”.

This is true only if you look at what ends up in the criminal justice system… and the press. Conflict studies indicate men and women are about as likely to initiate domestic violence and that roughly half is mutual violence.

When you have mutual violence, who is the “perpetrator”? Who is the “victim”? Perhaps we need a different set of labels.

Rihanna is a lying sack of sh*t and so is Chris Brown. My opinion is that everything was a setup. Chris Brown and Rihanna were starting to lose media attention so they came up with a plan to say that Chris Brown abuses Rihanna. Why do I say this? If a woman was truly being abused, would she basically say F. you to the man she is involved with? Or would she say that she still loves him even though he beats the crap out of her. Also, if it were a true abuse case Rihanna’s bruises would have been seen in public, there is no way that bruises that bad can go away so quickly.

Women are allowed to be verbally and emotionally abusive due to “hormones” or “that time of month” I suspect they would be even more physically abusive if they thought they could get away with it.
We as men are told “You just don’t understand.”
That perhaps is true, but if women knew what it was like to have testosterone flowing through your veins you’d give any man the distance he deserves as it is human nature to strike out at the weak.

The fact is she slapped him and he beat her. There is a definite difference between the two.

It’s not the question of who hit who first.

Cathy you seem to be doing a lot of double talk here. You state: “is that this isn’t about who cheated or who threw the first blow. This is about domestic violence.:

YES it is about domestic violence..but if she threw the first punch…is that not domestic violence? Or is it just when a man hits a woman? There are solid reports that she was hitting him with her high heels as he was driving and if she did hit him first as he was driving, this literally endangered everyone on the road as it could have caused an accident. Is this ok because of her gender Cathy?

You further state: “There are no arguments one can use to justify domestic violence. Be it violence against men or violence against women.” Then you excuse her violence?

You then ask: “Where I would like to know is where she gets her statistics from. In “MOST” cases the female strikes first?:

Unbiased stats are out there if you take your head out of the sand and look for a few moments. Several posted some here but you have never replied to acknowledge them.

Would you like more of them?

Cathy, women like you are why domestic violence is only seen as a man being the abuser and women being the victim. If violence is wrong, you would not be excusing the attacks of women as less harmful than that of men. I have one rule that my wife accepts; don’t hit me, and I won’t hit you. We have lived over 25 years in marriage that way. We taught our children the same rule-boys and girls. Being a black American, I know from the past, the patterns of abuses put upon slaves including death-a slave could never defend himself. He had to take the beatings, lynchings, disrespect of Whites and slavemasters-his life belonged to his master-life/death. The words of Whites and slaveowners were law and always right without an equal when dealing with the slaves. Slaves didn’t have a voice, a right, liberty, etc. Slaves were to serve Whites and slaveowners without complaint or any negative expression. The next pattern is the one that came after the freeing of the slaves and ended at the beginning of the 1960s-slaves became Negroes and Whites continued the same abuses and controls. Negroes were still mistreated and abused and murderer by Whites and like today’s women power over men; they had the police, prosecutors, judges, and juries supporting the abuses by excusing all forms of abuses by Whites, women{today}, and slaveowners. Cathy, the right to deter violence against oneself must always be a right for all, not one race or gender. Rihanna admitted she baited Chris and more[probably hit him several times], and she admitted he snapped. Rihanna was wrong and should have been charged. Chris was wrong for not pressing charges and going to trial for all-Americans to hear the complete courses of actions that took place. Are you the type of woman that believes men should never have women arrested for domestic violence? Oh yeah, going by your stand-this United States should never attack any country that harms us, because we are a superpower militarily, so attacking Iraq, Iran, etc. Is wrong since they can’t harm enough Americans to matter compared to the large population we have. Oh yeah, men comes in various shapes and sizes like women.