Which is More Important, Constitutional Rights or Child Support?
I’ve been doing research into the Bradley Amendment that requires state courts to prohibit retroactive reduction of child support obligations. Quite a few non-custodial parents who pay child support want the amendment repealed because it violates their constitutional rights. I’m of the opinion that if you have a child or children to support, your constituional rights are not more important than your moral obligation to support your child or children. Truthfullly, I feel it is just another excuse, something to be used to justify non-payment of support by folks who think they should not be held responsible.
I was checking out this blog and found the comment left by Jackson not only ignorarnt but pathetic.
“The Bradley amendment has ruined my life. I am only a father because my ex intentionally got pregnant the very first time we had sex. I found out later that she planned it in advance. She raised the child with her last name while dragging me through court over and over. The child has graduated from high school and I still have to pay her mother $9,000 over the next 3 years. I have other legitimate debts to pay and it pains me to send her this money. I am astonished and profoundly disappointed that such legislation could even be considered, much less signed into law.”
Jackson, you have got to be kidding! Your ex intentionally got pregnant the first time you two had sex? I’ve got some information for you that, based on your comment will come as a surprise. You were just as responsible for the pregnancy as she was Jackson.
If you had protected yourself by using a condom your ex would not have been able to intentionally become pregnant. If you don’t want a woman to become pregnant double up on the condoms and use a spermicide. That and that alone will keep you from becoming a father if you don’t want to be a father and guess what, just as she planned ahead to become pregnant, you can plan ahead to keep a woman from becoming pregnant.
Hopefully you’ve learned your lesson but just in case…Plan ahead Jackson before you engage in sex with a woman again.
Another thing, what debt could be more “ligitimate” than the debt you have to a child you helped bring into the world? Maybe if you had paid child support as ordered instead of giving the mother of your child a justifiable reason to drag you into court over and over again you would not now be having a hard time paying your ligitimate debt.
I’ve read comments like Jacksons before. If it isn’t some guy complaing about having to pay child support because some woman intentionally got pregnant it is some woman whining that she got pregnant by a guy who told her he couldn't have children.
Isn’t it time to grow up and take responsibility? If you play without protection someone is going to pay and since we have laws protecting children it is the aduluts who pay.
You musrt obviously either be on the receiving end of child support or have never dealt with the child support courts. There are THOUSANDS of kids that were never wanted by the fathers. You see, the woman if she doesn’t want the child, she can have an abortion and the father has NO RIGHTS! You see, the woman can also have the child and dump them at a hospital and once again, the father has NO RIGHTS! And there are thousands of women, who tell their husbands that they are on birth control and then become pregnant because they were NOT taking birth control.
Yes, a man should wear a condom, but they are not 100% effective. In addition, the responsibility is of BOTH parents. If the mother could not support a child on their own, maybe they should’ve thought about that before getting pregnant as well. In addition, thousands of women out there who do not work and receive welfare complain about child support, yet they themselves are NOT supporting their kids…the government, ie. YOU AND ME are.
If women want equality, then they should get EQUALITY…no, most of these women want benefits above and beyond equality.
And every single day people lose their jobs and spend less on the kids when this happens…however, a divorced father paying child support does NOT have this option…only the custodial mother has this option.
So, I hope you take the time to actually study this a bit more instead of writing about a subject you obviously know very little about.
I am a woman who has to pay child support and make low income and don’t know how much longer my car will run. My ex makes 23.00 an hour when he works — and he does side jobs. He got himself into 55 thou credit card debt. I have never owned a credit card — this happened after the divore. Anyway he also smokes pot. I know this as fact. So 2 years ago after 7 of not filing against me — he filed and so this year they took my whole income tax return and I had to pay 1000.00 back owed so it wouldn’t go to collections. When he divorced me he was arrested first for abuse. He beat the crap out of me — he was crazy. He is 6′4 and 280 lbs. and not fat. I went to the hospital at the young age of 26 with my mother who has ms and they brought in social workers — and they asked me to sign (coerced me into signing) so DHS could be involved. I left the house. My ex was not in the house either as he was staying at a motel via way of credit card ofcourse. Anyway because I left the house they said I couldn’t have the house and that he could have my children. He was made to take abuse classes and have counseling and was on probation for a year — and a year after that he was expunged. How is it I get abused and then it’s proven and then I get punished for it and then I have to have a price put on my head? How is it that he can still after 11 years of being divorced be involved in my life and taunting me and taking money from me.
He has health insurance even — I don’t have health care at all and refuse to go to the doctor for anything since I couldn’t afford to pay for a doctor. I know I am premenopausal now, and my teeth are really starting to get bad with holes and cavities. My eyesite is bad. I have an old car not gonna last much longer. He has more than one vehicle! He didn’t ask for custody of my daughter – his mother did. He neglected my kids pretty much on the whole and I had little recourses to do anything and still am not able to do a lot even for myself, that money could have got me another car to ensure I could even keep a job — who knows cause my job isn’t secure. But when collections come after you you then end up owing 30 percent more everymonth on top of the total — so that scares me. Why is it he can ruin his credit and mine. Why is it that I have to go into debt because of him. It’s actually like another form of abuse in my opinion and I really don’t think anyone should have to pay child support. I think it’s all bunk.
It’s not just men. My ex-wife has spent the last 8 years avoiding paying child support. Her excuses are more pathetic than your Jackson example. Years ago, I came to the realization that I couldn’t count on her, so I adjusted our lifestyle accordingly. It sucks, but I sleep better not counting on her contributions to make the mortgage payment.
As much as I’d like to see her shoulder her responsibilities, I’m not eager to rewrite the constitution. As satisfying as it sounds, I don’t see where putting my ex in jail or taking her drivers license away, both eliminating her ability to work, is founded in our country’s ideals.
We need to find a new way to exist as a society. 50% of all marriages end in divorce and I just read that in the US, 40% of all children are now born to unwed mothers. Ignoring the fact that some of the “unwed mothers” are in permanent relationships with the father(s) of their children, it means that most children will be covered by a child support order at some time in their lives.
I totally agree the 3 comments above!
Blah!Blah!!Blah!!!Get a Vasectomy already and quit trying to blame women.No one held a gun to your head and forced you to have sex.You got tricked?No Sir!!! you let yourself get tricked.I had a boyfriend once who made the trip with me to get the birthcontroll and stood in front of me at 7:00pm every evening to make sure I took it.He knew about “Responsibility”.
It just pisses me off when people complain about child support.Let me tell you something if you happen to be the non-custodial parent: Your child uses electricity,water that is both cold and hot,your child doesn’t just eat 3 meals but snacks in between,you child has to pay for lunch at school maybe even breakfast.Your child’s foot grows pretty fast and so more than one pair of shoes is needed.Different types of clothing is needed for school,church,and events your child will be in.Your child has a right to have his or her horizons broaden by extra curricular activities such as baseball,karate,ballet,boyscouts and/or girlscouts.Field Trips cost money so do monthly fees for these activities.Sometimes you need dance slippers,or baseball gleets.Your child has parties at school where he or she needs to take napkins or forks,or cupcakes.Your child goes into the local Wal-Mart and wants Tech Decks or Brats Dolls.Your child gets invited to parties and needs to take a gift.And if you are the non-custodial parent chances are you are not the one having to gas up to get your child from point a to point b.Thus putting wear and tear on the custodial parents vehicle.If you are the non-custodial parent chances are you probably aren’t the one that has to loose sleep in the middle of the nite when your child gets sick and needs to be rushed to the emergency room in the middle of an ice storm.So Blah!Blah!!Blah!!You got a problem seeing your child?Then you best make an effort by showing up at his or her school.What? They wont let you in the school well guess what?The road next to the school is a public road and you can stand there with a poster that says,”I LOve YOU!!!” and your child will either see you are making an effort or will hear about it.What your ex wont let you see the child?Then I guess you better get two or three jobs and pay an attorney to take your ex back to court.Quit blaming women and shame on you.In the time that it took you to type your comment you could have been e-mailing your child or making a phone call to him or her.
The Bradley Amendment does not allow chid support to be reduced even if the non-custodial parent becomes un-employeed. Child support should be 30% of their income. So if a non-custodial parent is making 100,000 then the child support should be 30,000, but if a new job only pays 60,000 how can you say they should still have to pay 30,000. If the Custodial parent makes less income then they make adjustments to fit their budget. Sometimes in these even the custodian parent might have to spend less on the child. The government does not come in and tell them they cannot make adjustments to how much they spend on thier children.
How DARE you blame the man for this. Why would you pick his post to call him ignorant and pathetic? How do you know that the woman didn’t tell him she was on birth control? Shouldn’t that be a valid method of protecting oneself during sex? How many birth control methods do you use? If you REQUIRE every man to have a condom on every time he has sex then maybe you should also require a woman to not LIE about being on birth control. Why should he have to pay for her mistake? That child is absolutely a mistake and should have been placed for adoption. He could have had a life with two loving parents, but instead he was drawn through a life of fighting for child support because the mother was selfish and a thief. The next time you partake in an activity that you consider enjoyable with a stranger, imagine being sued for 100s of thousands of dollars just because BOTH parties were not responsible.
I am a woman and if I ever became pregnant against a man’s wishes I would NEVER attack him to support a child. Instead, I would live up to the standard my mother set for me and support my own child with pride and hard work. YOU ARE DISGUSTING FOR NOT LOOKING AT BOTH SIDES OF THIS STORY. Trust me, when the states are finally held accountable for their greed-driven, child support collection agencies, WOMEN will have to grow up and support their own children. It’s embarrassing trying to preach for womens rights and equal pay when there are women that only try to steal from men.
Next time, do some more research on what you define “rights”. Is it not a man’s right to earn money and improve his lifestyle? Did you know that the top child support offenders owe in excess of 1 million dollars and hold jobs in contracting, landscaping, and labor. Is it really a child’s right to collect a million dollars from a man he never knows?
Of all the atrocities committed by the current child support structure, the people who are harmed the most are the Children. Women, who otherwise would not be able to support their children and would potentially choose to give them to a loving family for adoption, instead choose to keep them and draw them through intense litigation, without even gaining the full ability to support them.
Is it a mother’s right to choose a Daycare that charges the father $1000 per month when she only earns $1400 per month? Even with the father’s support, the child will still not benefit from a household that could actually support him and NO ON holds the mother accountable for her terrible Spending habits.
I wanted our daughter (adopted) and I want to be a good father. I paid $2000 per month child support to a woman who makes over $100,000/year, company car, company cell phone, etc. I was making good money and child support was garnished from my wages and everyone was “happy.” I have since lost my job, depleted my checking account and now my savings are being taken by child support services to cover my arrears that have not been adjusted for my new “income” of unemployment. Thankfully I have been able to pay off my divorce debt. However, I am quite fearful of being penalized by the support collection agency because I lost my job. I will lose my car, be evicted from my apartment, have almost no financial resources to pay for food et al and fully expect to be threatened with jail… because I have been layed off and have not found employment in 6 months. If there is no sympathy for the “fathers” who choose not be fathers, is there any room for those of us who have not chosen our situations? The child support provisions were supposed to ensure that the children shared the lifestyle that they would have enjoyed if both parents/incomes were to remain joined. But is it right that the child and custodial parent enjoy life at the expense of the non-custodial parent? Honestly, I feel that my rights to pursue life, liberty and happiness are being entirely removed by this and similar legislation. My daughter now has over $100,000 in the bank. I have $300. And now owe more than $10,000 and counting. Is that fair? Just? Moral? Freedom? American? What kind of father can I be from jail? A reward for losing my job… I love my daughter and wish her the best life possible.
Scared, when you lost your job did you hire an attorney, go to court and petition the court for a downward modification in child support?
“Scared, when you lost your job did you hire an attorney, go to court and petition the court for a downward modification in child support?”
Are you for real?
OK, so, he *LOST* his job; the advice is “go hire an attorney”? With what money? And even if he did have enough to “hire an attorney” what sense does that make to spend money on an attorney instead of spending it towards something that is in the best interest of the child (or children)? I can tell you from experience (and pure common sense), “hiring an attorney” is absolutely no where near the best interests of anyone but the lawyers and the courts.
If someone truly cannot pay support, is honestly looking for a job (in an economy with near 10% unemployment that is feasible), why do they “need to hire an attorney”? The answer is… because they have to. So factually, you are correct. That was/is his only real recourse with the system in place today.
Should anyone have to do this when the goal is to make the circumstances FAIR for both parents? If both situations are fair, and both parents are truly “good” parents… then the child(ren) are the ones who benefit MOST.
And where is the government in all of this? They are making sure that paternity is established as much as possible and that child support awards are collected as much as possible. They get federal money based on the percentage they reach for these goals (upwards of 400million!). And this is fact; simply read far enough in to Title IV-D of the Social Security Act, the section relevant to “grants” to states! (Then carefully poke around in your state law and you will find wording that says they can receive it – another fact.) They do NOT, however, get similar money for promoting safer sex, better marriages, responsible parenting!
I have a similar story to the ones above, which are in turn similar to countless other stories all over the country. I’ll not re-tell mine to save what has been said many times before.
I will end by saying that those (sarcasm begins here) fantastic family protection laws passed in the 1990’s are sure helping with the number of divorces, fatherless/motherless children, etc. Those numbers have done nothing but skyrocket! Why motivation does the government have to change them, though? They’re making more and more money the worse it gets!
-Matt
Am I serious? Yes. He states that his “savings” are being taken to pay child support. If he has money in an account that can be taken to cover child suppor then he has money in the bank he could have used to hire an attorney.
“what sense does that make to spend money on an attorney instead of spending it towards something that is in the best interest of the child (or children)?”
Now I have to ask if you are serious. It makes all the sense in the world. If he had done that he would not be here complaining about his savings being taken to pay child support.
He would not be a man about to be destroyed financially but a man whose child support order had been modified. Now, that would be in his children’s best interest because what good is a father who is stressed out about money and unable to pay his child support?
Matt, I have to chuckle every time I hear someone argue that the government is to blame for fatherless/motherless children and the state of marriage today.
As if the government is sitting at the foot of all the beds where unwanted children are created. Or, sitting in the homes of parents who choose to divorce over staying married for the sake of their children.
The government doesn’t become involved into they are invited into the situation. If you or I create a child that needs to be support we invite the government in. If you or I choose to divorce we invite the government into our lives…we give them control.
Why not stop complaining and blaming the government for the sad situation our children are in and start taking responsibility and living our lives in a way that will keep the government from ever being able to step in and take any kind of control.
It isn’t rocket science, it is common sense but the problem is, we are a country of people who screw up and hate like hell having to take responsibility when we screw up.
So Matt, if you don’t want the government making money off of you, make good choices and live responsibly and you won’t have to worry about it.
i do not understand all the animosity against fathers and mothers . believe it or not there are some parents who want to do the right thing in spite of all the trickery the other party has caused.
i know a man who’s daughter lives 60 miles away after the mother took the child to another county. filed for custody and child support and the father can only see the kid on alternate weekends. he is making 39000 a year and was forced to pay 1500 per month. for child support and child care which left him with about 200 a week to live on. now he cant pay his car payments so now he cant visit his daughter, and he is getting evicted from his apartment. so even if he wanted his daughter to come visit for a weekend he has no place she can stay. because he makes more than the poverty level he cannot even get food stamps or housing. when he went to court to lower the payments he was told by the judge to get a SRO to live in. its totally obvious the court system isnt built for the real benefit of the child. what is a child without a parent who loves them? where is the justice in that? i do believe child support is necessary but at what cost?
all you bitter people posting really needs to get a grip and be grateful that this hasn’t happened to you .
even if you are angry think about your child’s right to have happy and healthy parents who can be there for the kids. what good is money without love?
I am worried about the same thing. I am expected to pay $500 every month to my ex when I only make about $2000 at the most then my ex who makes more than twice the amount I do every month from trust funds and no job, her and her family are millionaires! I have fallen behind a few months but I pay as much as I can and I have my daughter for 2 days every week but I’m sure because of their wealth They can hire any attorney to hide her fortune. This same woman who has millions in education trusts and applies for FAFSA so she gets extra money that is intended for the poor to go to college! These laws need to be changed! It’s time for all of us good fathers to raise hell! My daughter is on state funded health insurance because of my low income. If I came from fortunes I would be ashamed to know that. The problem is that these rich people can make justice a luxury that the rest of us can only dream about. Really if you think about it attorneys are expensive and that money could be used for the child, we are talking $2,000 to $10,000 per hearing! Very soon I will have to go to court again without an attorney to protect me from them.
I have no assets and no savings so maybe I can just give them a kidney and I can stop their attacks for a while. I never gave any thought to child support fraud but now I do! I understand that there are real cases of women that work hard and should be receiving some help, but I know I’m not the only father that has had to deal with this same thing. I understand that my situation is ass backwards but I know that there are other people who love their child more than life and are feeling the same hopelessness.
But on another note I spoke with a 19-year-old female the other day and she explained to me that she has great resentment for her mother because she found out about her father being financially crippled because of excessive financial demands by her mother. This girl explained that her mother squandered any money she received from her father and she never saw a dime. So, I guess the bright side of this is that maybe not now but when your child is older you will have a bond that no money or lies can tear apart. I know there are fathers out there like me. Please don’t loose faith in who you are because you did nothing wrong except for wanting to be a part of you child’s life.
My family has received threats 2 years ago that if we ever tell the full truth in court that our lives will be made a living hell so, for now we must remain silent because they have the money and power to make threats a reality. I hope and pray that fathers some day have the same rights as the wealthy. But until then just be strong and keep your child in your heart. Times have changed and it’s not the same as the 1950’s Fathers are taking a more active role in their children’s lives and deserve the same respect as parents. I will never forget the evenings rocking my daughter till 3am and getting up for work the next day while the mother laid in bed with earplugs in. However I bonded with my daughter during that time my voice and heartbeat would calm her when she had colic.
Well I hope someone reads this and takes it to heart.
TH.
Gee, wonder how many of these EX’s allow normal visitation to the NCP?
How many CP’s dont need the money or have boy freind/girl freinds New Spouse that take care of the home?
How many children involved have been told daddy/mommy is a dead beat?
How many CP’s remarried and moved away from the NCP?
How many NPC remarried and cant support a new family ?
How many CP’s use the money for vacations and leave the kids with grandma but never the NCP?
all these questions are real fact it happends alot. Lawyers cost money but the CP’s depending on the “welfare system ” can get free or reduced leagle help but not the NCP.
and most divorces are stupid the wife or sometimes the husband find someone else and kick the other to the curb is this really a no fault divorce?
wife kicks out husband starts seeing boyfreind keeps the kids dog house car ect ect. boy freind leaves the wife because cant get along with the kids “its not daddy” mom goes on welfare welfare office says who the daddy mom writes it down on paper and the system enforces anything they can from the dad. there are never lines drawn in a divorce even if they dont want child support the states WILL get the paper signed and enforce it.
think about this now does a NCP get a snowballs chance? even in a 50/50 split the NPC ill get it in the end.
The Bradly Amendment is clearly in opposition to the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution. The creation of slavery and servitude by device and/or an instrument of document is clearly not an American Ideal or value. Calling a debt an obligation while creating involuntary servitude or slavery is exactly what happens to millions of non-custodial parents. This this the reason why the Civil War was fought. The Bradly Amendment should be repealed the results of enforcement is tens of millions of financially enslaved US
citizens. A result that is unconstitutional. It may also violate
the 8th Amendment, cruel and unusual punishment for
millions of US adults. Especially, in the present down economy or jobless recovery.