Changes To Florida Child Custody Law
Revisions to the laws concerning Florida Child Custody and other family law matters will become effective October 1, 2008.
The new law will do away with the “tender years doctrine” which most feel is the reason fathers are awarded custody less often than mothers. You know, the presumption that the mother is the better caregiver so regardless of how active a father is in the life of his child custody automatically goes to the mother.
I’ve done research and haven’t been able to find out in-depth information about the new law. I do know that there will no longer be a “primary residential parent” and a “secondary residential parent.” They are also doing away with the terms “custodial” and “non-custodial” parent. The mother and father will both be known through the courts as the “parent.”
What they are attempting to do by changing terminology that is used to identify a parent is unclear to me. I was told by an attorney friend that the old terms minimalized the role of the non-custodial parent…made that parent seem less important in the child’s life.
Another term done away with is “visitation.” The terms “parenting plan” or “time sharing’ will now be used. Again, this is an attempt by the courts to make sure that both parents play a larger or more equal role in a child’s life.
I’m sorry but, in my opinion how important a role you have in your child’s life has little to do with terminology in a final divorce decree. I don’t want to dismiss the pain fathers go through when the family they love is torn apart by divorce and the time they spend with their children is dictated by a final divorce decree. I can’t imagine the level of frustration and emotional pain that would cause.
I know from personal experience and from years of communicating with divorced parents that no matter what you are called by the courts, if you don’t work at building and maintaining a relationship with your child changing the words used by the courts isn’t going to amount to a hill of beans.
I hope that I’m wrong and a few new descriptive words will be the answer that fathers are looking for. Maybe this new law will level out the playing field and give them just as much right to custody and parenting their child as the mother. In the meantime, call your child every day, don’t miss a scheduled visitation, make their needs your priority and never put your interest above theirs. If you do that, it won’t matter what term is used to describe you by a family court.
Comments
The “Tender Years Doctrine” was actually abolished in Florida in 1982. As a non custodial mother , I found that out the hard way. I’m not an unfit mother, I just didn’t have the aid of an attorney to help me make my case. My ex did, and he was awarded custody. As the “secondary” parent, I have problems obtaining school records. My child’s teacher told me that they only send them to the “Primary” parent. I’m hoping that this new law will make it easier for me to keep up with my child’s educational progress, but I’m afraid that changing the name isn’t going to change the attitude.
I do agree that in the end, it’s up to the non-custodial parent to maintain a close, loving relationship with their child. Hopefully this new law will facilitate that.
Liz, I’ve never heard of a school that would not provide information for both parents. Is your name on your children’s registration forms as their mother? Did your ex specifically ask the school to not release information to you?
The thought that a parent who shows interest can’t obtain information from her/his child’s school is bothersome. It makes me wonder if this is a state wide attitude toward the “secondary” parent or is it a district attitude.
I always make sure the school knows that my ex is to be given any information he requests regarding our children. He hasn’t seen them in 4 years and shows no interest but, if he ever does I want him to be able to find out what he wants to know.
Cathy
As Barak Obama said, Words do matter. Changing the terminology that fathers are not visitors but parents is just one step in the ladder to changing our arcane custody laws. If we want kids to be raised by both their mom and dad, as they should be, post separation and divorce, changing how we address them is important. Just like calling African Americans this has a much different connotation than the perjurative words that used to be said. Words do matter.
As long as such words as “non-custodial parent” and “visitation” are applied in child custody matters, there will always be an element of human nature on the part of judges, court investigators, and legislators which will dictate their actions as they apply or create laws. Removing such words will not fix the problem, but it will certainly remove one of the roadblocks faced by “non-custodial parents”, particularly when the former spouse does everything she can to place impediments in path to effectively parent in separate households. This is certainly an encouraging first step, but falls far short of a solution.
Yes it does matter changing those words. I Am verry happy to see that finally the law is begining to see that there are some mothers that like to belittle and bully the father by saying that they are the primary custodial parent and that their house is the primary residence. Visitation? Well my daughter has a room of her own full of all of her stuff, so she is not visiting, she leves with me and her mom. Am living that right now and my daughter lives with me every other week not weekend. This law change came just in time as Am in the middle of a custodial battle where the mother has gone as far as giving false accusations towards me and the court just dismissed it. Am so exited with this law change as my finnal hearing will be heard after October 1st wich means that it will apply to me.
Florida cannot even get child support issues resolved, or foster care system laws or any laws pertaining to the childs best interest and now they want to change custodial laws. Why don’t the law makers get their heads out of the sand instead of trying to change things and add to more confusion which never help the people who need it anyway.
Kudos for our governor!!! I am thrilled about the change; I am a divorced woman with two wonderful children and have maintained a healthy relationship with my ex. for the purpose of our childrens mental, emotional and physical well being. I have never liked the wording in our divorce decree, how can a court use words as custody, visitation, primary residential paren? No court should have a right to make one parent feel less connected! That is what these words do, my husband has been divorced for 8yrs and his ex constantly blocks him having access to effective parenting regarding his daughter. We have paid more for attorney fees and called the police more times than I can count to assist in picking up his daughter for his visitation. How sad, so the next time you make the irresponsible comment that these are only words; maybe its you who should be on the receiving end of the assault of residential parent. Schools and the courts take these words and automatically assume something was wrong with secondary parent it causes bias. Are you a secondary person, was it not two consenting adults creating these children? or was there a secondary person? There are to many vengeful and manipulative women out there who use those evil words to interfere with dads just wanting to be able to love and nurture their children. Shame on your response and it makes me wonder why your ex has not seen his children in 4yrs? Shall i assume you may suffer from PAS?
Jackie, your statement was spot on! These are so much more than words. When one parent abuses this power over the other (secondary or non residential custodial parent)then the child loses. This has nothing to do with calling your child everyday, but everything to do with being ALLOWED to make desisions and being ALLOWED to participate fully in your childs life. Although this seems like a great win for fathers, as they have been on the wrong side of the Tender Years Law generally. I feel for any parent who lost the coin toss when a judge had to designate one as residential. Most importantly this really is a win for our children and for parents to be equal!
The changes to the wording is to try and stop the parents fighting over titles and get them to focus on their children’s best interest which is to have the parents cooperate and make the plans themselves. High conflict parents will most likely not be able to accomplish this therefore court appointed psychologists (formerly known as custody evaluators) will be appointed to recommend a parenting plan and division of parenting time to the judge. One area of concern for me is how this is going to effect victims of domestic violence.
I Don’t have a clue what the new law will do. My ex wife is turning terrible. When we split it was supposed to be visit your daughter any time, I know your a good dad and will help raise her well.I was a fool and thought that was it. As soon as about a year went by I heard the words “read your divorce papers.”.And I became the secondary parent. Now my ex and her whole family tell my 6 year old that I dont have any sayso.Quote from the grandpa,”thats right you dont have any say my daghter will make all the decissions with out you.” I ask my little girl If she wants to go somewhere and do something nice and she says I have to ask my Mommy. I need to stop now But I Have one statement to close on .I DIDNT DIVORCE MY DAUGHTER. I will soon be selling the last thing I own free and clear,A truck, in order to pay for legal help. and I pray that this law helps . thanks for reading.
Able and willing fathers who want to be in the childrens life are chased out of the country most the time.I can easily raise my kids more than 50% of the time and make a big difference in their life as a dad which I never had.But as I mature and grow I understand why my dad high tailed away from me.He couldnt afford child support and keep a roof over his head.The courts would rather see a man pay child support and go broke ,work three jobs to live in a shack,when he is able and willing to parent his kids half the time.Iam behind in child support,I work over 80hrs a week I struggle to live but I see my kids 2 to 3 times a week.
Having a relationship with your child is easier said than done. As the “secondary residential parent” my daughters father gives me no nformation regarding her life and he refuses visitations on a regular basis. I live 800 miles away, and have since before the divorce, he is in the military and moves all of the time. He could afford a better attorney and thats how he got custody of our (at the time) 3year old daughter. I am not unfit in fact I have full custody of my son from another relationship. Developing a relationship is hard when you aren’t even allowed to speak to your child or see her on regular basis and when you are scheduled to do so. The Courts are so concerned with “keeping a child in Florida” than acting in the child’s best interest. He has moved three times with her and no one seems to care. How do you, as a secondary parent, get a say in your child’s life when your ex thinks he is the only parent?
I have to say… being a parent and reading all of these diff. situations, it is extremely scary! I myself am a mom of 4… my 2 kids from my first marraige, i never recvd child support. i could have fought and been the bitch that others would have been assumed me to be, but i believed the kids needed their dad… thank god i did believe that, as he was killed 5 yrs ago… just after he spent the entire summer vacation with them. now, i my 2 youngest, we have been split for almost 2 yrs. he contributes 400.00 a month. this i am greatful for… but, he sees them once a week. this is his decision. I am not only pissed that he only wants one full day, but the amount that he pays to support… is not as much as he believes it is support. i choose not to take him to court. not fair to my kids… what bothers me is he really believes he is financially and emotionally supporting them to the fullest. i sometimes think i am crazy… LOL!
Words mean everything. Try living under the yoke of “secondary” and “non-custodial,” being told by your child’s school you need a permission slip signed by your vindictive ex. Equal parenting makes horse sense. It is least inhumane, most compassionate, toward the child in the wake of a walkaway wife or husband. As a practical matter, women may only have equal rights at work to the extent men have equal rights to parent. It’s physics. One condition needs the other to be met before the other may be fully realized.
I have found that Shared Parental Responsibility has been very difficult. My ex husband is very difficult. He will argue just to disagree. Simple things like soccer practice has become a constant battle. The ex signed up our son for soccer practices that conflict with my schedule and fall on my day. If I have a problem…I have to take him to court. Simply put. If two parents do not agree, someone has got to be able to make a decision. This will not end any confusion..I think it only makes things worse. Too many chiefs and not enough indians!
The new law was just brought to my attention today when I visited my lawyer to discuss getting custody of my almost 3 year old daughter. My soon to be ex-husband only wants her when its convenit to him and by the second day of visitation he is ready for me to come and pick her up. I do agree with the new law coming to light but if the other parent is not taking his/her responsibilites to help with the upbringing and support of the child , how is it fair to the parent that is providing and the sole caretaker of the child? I wish the lawmakers would be more concerned with helping the mothers with “Dead Beat Dads” rather than give them more rights than they deserve.
Regarding the term changes. I could see that it might add some confusion for schools. Which house the child(ren) primarily reside in should be well defined IMO. The other terms well it’s not like people won’t still use (or not use)them outside of court depending on his/her place in the situation.
Natasha-
If he is being inconsistent with his visitations that is grounds for having them changed. I know in my divorce and my current husband’s divorce (we both have primary custody of all the children) our exs lack of consistency was a huge issue to the judges and caused restrictions to be placed on them. Heck my husband’s ex is required to call 24 hrs ahead every week just to confirm that she will be exercising her visitation (and she well below standard visitations).
Being divorced for 6 years, I fought from the beginning to be a 50% partner with my ex-wife. Being that her family came from money, it was easier for her to belittle and abuse me, so I basically had to give in or go broke. Since 2002, I have had to endure so much scrutiny and many financial problems in paying her that I have had nothing but regrets for not fighting hard enough. When I heard this law passed, I knew that my time had come. She is being summonsed this week and I will let you know if I get my 50%. I seriously have not had a home since my kids left. No place Ive stayed has been close to a home. This will at least be fair and even the playing field.
I just heard about this from my lawyer today and I had to look it up for more information. I was in the process of taking my ex back to court to get visitation worked out. As the PRIMARY custody parent he has literally tortured me with that title over the years. I spend just as much if not more time with our son as he does. It’s horrible having to explain it to nosy people. Yes they should stay out of my business but it is how people are. Why aren’t you the primary, they ask. Even after I explain that I spend just as much time with him I still feel like less of a mom. Now we get to sit down and work out a visitation calendar that I think will benefit everyone in the long run.
Love the new law.
Bottom line is if you are a divorced male with children ,you have no rights what so ever,your labaled a dead beat dad.To the moms imagine being told you can only see your child 4 times a month,What kind of relationship will you have with them?90% of woman want full custody because of the child support.IF YOU REALLY CARED ABOUT YOUR CHILD YOU WOULD INCOURAGE JOINT CUSTODY FOR YOUR CHILDS WELL BEING.
The main reason why parents want full custody of their kids is because they new they had an income called child support.(Besides the dead beats) if the child support law was pulled I guarantee you parents would be up to joint custody and sharing their children with each other.Its all about the money!!
I tell you what Cathy – call the Florida Department of Revenue sometime and identify yourself as the non-custodial parent. You will find the bias from that point on to be beyond belief.
Also, it is about time Florida recognized that both parents matter to the children. I am thrilled about any attempt to get away from one parent doing the bulk of the child rearing. Look around – the custodial system a huge failure.
Plus – if the starting point of a divorce proceeding is fairness to both parents, the need for lawyers should be diminished, something that would be even better. They need to be removed from the divorce equation.
Hello, I was wondering why each time I try to print any “About” pages, they never fit on the paper. Even if I go to your “print” page. And it isn’t just my home printer but the same thing happens at the library’s printer.
This law is good if you have a Parent that will take advantage of this for the benefit of the child/children involved but it’s sad when it’s used for the benefit of hurting the other parent and getting away with murder. As of today I am the custodial Parent but just because the Father was the one that enrolled my Daughter in her school it has been even then very difficult to be treated as a Parent and instead as an outsider. I tried to change my Daughter’s address because Father’s home is being foreclosed and he does’nt even live there and the school said they cant because he will have to disenroll her. I don’t have any problems with both parents having the same rights but please be responsible and always remember what you do and say to the children, hurt them more than anyone else.
i have more of a question than a comment. i just had twin daughters and im not married,do i have the same rights as far as custody as i would if we were married? im still thier father and love them more than anything and would do anything for them.
Does anyone know what the new law will do for the father? Will they get closer to 50/50 ?
i have a 6 yr old daughter who has medical problems.i hope this will help fathers considering im a non-custodial parent. i only get to see her when she needs a babysitter or she is in the hospital. the mother is all about the money my daughter is a pay check to her.i think people(moms & dads) alike should not have custody when they are like this!!!!!!!!!! I feel lke im just a sperm donor! we need laws to protect the fathers from the babymams!
Does the law apply to current orders that have already been in place? Or does this apply to those who are getting a divorce after Oct 1, 2008? What would be the point in changing a parenting plan that is already working for the children? just to get to 50/50?
Question: How will the new law affect the modification process? Under the new law, will the primary residential parent be allowed to modifiy an existing order, so everything will be 50/50? -and a fam law mediator will revise a time-sharing or parenting plan??? What about child support? Will each parent pay his or her creditors individually (daycare, summer camp, health insurance)…ect? instead of writing a check to one parent. Will the gross substantial method of calculating child support be used only if one parent makes substantially more income than the other. Kudos to our Govenor…no more labeling…know only if same sex couples could marry or even Adopt, that would be even better.
I saw a mock up of the parenting plan today; it is about 27 pages long, includes a calendar, questions pertaining to communication between the parents, child care providers,transportation cost, holidays,significant days, dependency exemptions, medical providers, out-of-pocket related expenses for the child(ren), child support ect… The Statue applys to divorces, modifications & paternity cases. This includes out interstate cases too…
(Summer months) It does not elimate child support unless both parties make the same amount of income and/or agree, but it Does give Fathers more say in what is going on in their childs life ect…There is no need for high cost attorneys, custody cases never go infront of a judge unless the state finds abuse, neglect, abandonment ect… or a guardian ad litem is assigned to the case. I anticipate more paralegals, private family law mediators and lots of modifications.
Does this mean that “secondary residential parents” can have their child’s ‘custody’ and ‘visitation schedule’ re-visited or does the original MSA still apply?
Where can I find a copy of the new laws????
My husband is going to court for partial custody. His daughter’s mother is a pothead, gets kicked out of her residence (usually a bedroom) every 6-7 months, has never provided her daughter her own room since she was born, doesn’t want to earn her GED & get a better job, and all she cares about is more child support. My husband already pays $340 a month,and has his daughter 15 days of the month. She can’t make it on her own. In the court’s eyes, does this make her a fit mother. Would anyone leave their child with a babysitter that was just as irresponsible? So why leave the child with a parent who is “primary” and irresponsible?
This new law is fine and dandy for “True” fathers whom really care for their children. I know they exist out there….some…not many! However, for those “Absent Fathers” whom all of a sudden want to be “Daddy of the Year”….that just infuriates me!!!!!!!!!!!! This “time sharing” just angers me to say the least!!!!! Especially when the children are the ones that are suffering!!!!!!!!!!! Number one, it is not a toy we are sharing and number two I think there should be one parent to be custodial, as that may have been the case for years….yes…one parent involved in everything, while the other parent was there, but absent!!! My case!!!! I am sure it is the case of many others! And unfortunately, my children do NOT care much for their father as he never was there for them…money wise about was about it, but it was just a show off…now..nothing…..he gets every weekend visits, but is not paying any child support. He is paying the mortgage because he does not want to lose the home as he thinks he will one day be back in the home to live with another woman. Will not happen! In the meantime wants full parenting rights, while not providing for the children’s needs. Air conditioner down, refused to pay for repair, although children informed their father how miserable it was without it. Power to be shut off a few times, did not care. Then I am supposed to share my children with this “supposed father”?????? I think the Judges need to open their eyes better and see the situations for what they are (individually), not just a stack of cases!!!!!! . We are just a case number to them and that is it!!!! This new law is ridiculous and the lawmakers need to look into enforcing child support rather than changing names of laws…… I am sorry for the “few” good fathers that are out there…..because I know “they do exist”..but as I said….just a few….too few for the true mothers to have to put up with this new injustice!!!
This new law was quoted by a judge during a temporary custody hearing on October 1st. Using it, he allowed my soon-to-be-ex to have temporary custody of our daughter and gave me 1 day a week and every other weekend. Never mind that the “ex” left us when our child was just under two years old, has NEVER paid a single bit of child support, has NEVER wanted to be active in her life at all, saw her maybe 2 or 3 times a year for a few hours at a time, etc, etc. In other words, was a textbook dead-beat dad who simply fathered a child and then wanted nothing else to do with her. The past week has been terrible — our daughter simply doesn’t understand why she has to live with her dad — who is a stranger to her — and he has no clue how to care for her, about her school requirements, her schedule, her likes,dislikes, and so forth. The judge even said during the hearing that the “old” law favored the mothers too much …but to grant even temporary custody to a man who is a “father” only due to biology and in no other conceivable way, is ridiculous. My “ex” was more shocked than anyone — and not in a pleasant way — the ruling certainly not expected. When I asked my attorney about it, he said the judge could do whatever he wanted simply because he is the judge. I see this as a gross misuse of a judge’s authority. There is nothing fair about this new law, it only serves to hurt children who are caught in the middle and can’t speak for themselves.
Why does everyone assume the father never gets custody? What about dead beat moms who sit on bachelor’s degrees and pay child support based on working part-time at minimum wage?
I LOVE the new LAW. My Ex husband has primary custodial parent,and
he throws it in my face, I get no school forms,no medical information,I get nothing. He does not follow what is stated in our paperwork, the only he quotes he is her CUSTODIAL PARENT. His family has money he is spoiled,so he got a good attorney,when he does not get his way,takes me back to court, this is my THIRD time,who is he really hurting our Daughter. He cares about getting child support,some people use child support as a pay out, instead of the money going to their children. Like Barak Obama said on Father’s Day June 2008,anyone can make a baby but it takes a MAN to be a FATHER. Not every Father is a DEAD BEAT DAD, there are FATHERS who care about their children, who want a relationship with their children and who pay child support. We have some Fathers who are DEAD BEAT DADS and we have some Mothers who are DEAD BEAT Mothers but not ALL. My Ex is verry vindicative and what he does not realize is our Daughter is getting older. Parents think about how your children is going to treat you, when realize how you treated their Mother or Father,open your eyes it is not about you, it is about the CHILDREN.
Does this new law affect old cases that has already been ordered by a judge or mediation?
I am concerned with all of these readings that i have read seeing that i have a case hearing comming up the 23 of october. I am a single father of five, who tried to work out things out of court and regretably signed divorce papers without seeking legal council. Will i get what i’m asking for i’m woundering? all i (and the boys for that matter) want is to spend equal time with each parent. i can relate to most everyone in here on every level seeing that my case has been civil and digressed to conflicting. Although i have bitterness inside, and anger and frustration if i win my case for modification of custody i would never keep my boys from their mother. (no matter how much i want to inside, or how much she has used them against me.) i think that the fights and things come from both sides on most occasions. i determined that she can fight me on petty stuff out of court, call me what she may, or accuse me of anything she wants to make me feel like a unfit father or whatever. All that matters to me in the long run is what my five boys think when they get to the age to determine who i really am. I have found out through experience words hold little of anything in a court of law. its what you do with your anger to make your case worse. yes they matter and hurt, but we as “real” fathers and mothers will do more to help our children to see how to deal and handle with conflict if we don’t get over emotional and upset with whatever is being said about us. my ex has tried to have my L’s suspended and me put in jail for being behind in child support but that gives me no right to treat her with anything but respect considering she IS and always will be my Boys mother. i can not help being behind and if she can’t understand the reasons for that i can’t help her with the understanding or being resonable with me on issues such as these. i have won all my cases thus far on a defensive basis this will be the first offensive case hearing i will have to determine anything to modify for the kids in what i think is in Their favor. I’ll let everyone know how it goes.
A Concerned Father.
I am another mother who was unable to get records from my child’s elementary school in Jupiter Fl (Palm Beach County). I moved to TN from FL and had an order that I could not relocate to TN with the child but I had been emotionally and financially destroyed many times over by the x and needed family assistance. I had to leave the child in Fl with the x. This makes me sound like a failure of a mom, and I feel like one, but I am a victim of violence and severe emotional/psychological battering from x misusing courts for 9 years now. I am a medical professional and have worked with pediatrics 9 years and directing over 50-80 nurses for 7 years now. I am a professional educated person of sound mind and often complimented on being so calm. So I would call the Florida elementary school and they would be short, sometimes condescending. I would ask for records and get a report card. I questioned this and was told that is all there is. My x left my son here in TN after this 2008 summer visitation with me after demanding money above child support and refusing to do any driving as he had previosuly promised. He threatened court if I would not give more money saying he would have a custody battle and he has all these witnesses lined up. Now child is in 4th grade in TN and his new school here gets these outrageous psychological evaluations from the FL school that I never knew existed. These people (FL)would not allow me to have parent/ teacher conference by phone and the one in person I had the counselor was short, rude and condescending. Often wouldn’t return my calls or refused to answer my questions with a sincere answer. If I did talk to anyone and they told him the x would go into a rage and deny me time on the phone with our little son. He would deny visits, make visits difficult. I didn’t understand why until I read this report that fraudulantly accuses me of detachment, neglect, psychological problems, says I didn’t want our child, accuses me of abuse/neglect and x gave a false family/medical history to make his stories/lies sound credible. If I call the school they won’t give me the time of day. I am having trouble getting medical records from my son’s pediatrician and couselor in FL as well.
Changing the words may help but it is little consolation to parents going through divorce. Most issues with the children never go away until they are grown and you hope that they are able to have some objectivity with both parents. I think the core problem is that in Florida the courts are designed to foster more support for the women. I have seen fathers taken advantage of, and probably the worst thing is women who have babies solely for an income stream. I am a single parent and the father is too sick too work so child support is not even remotely possible unless he can qualify for some sort of assistance. Luckly we have a friendly situation unlike many people. I have seen women who leave their kids and are capable of supporting them but refuse to get any kind of work. Women holding children hostage because they don’t get their money…makes you believe that they don’t care about how important the connection with their father may be. And yes…lots of dead beat dads there too. I am a very hard critic of women who use every evil thing they can to mess with the father at the detriment to their children. I have to work hard to keep a roof over our heads and balance time to spend time with her. She sees her Dad and it’s very difficult for her to see him ill like he is. I believe that when things get ugly and war is declared in these situations that the overriding factor in all of this is not what is good for the kids but what is good for the parent that does everything they can to make things hard and are not willing to be rational.
Many people who work in the child support system automatically assume the woman has primary care of the children and refuse to open their mind to the fact that in today’s world that women walk out on the family too. Until you change the way most people in the government system think the system will always be biased against the Father.
I think that all of the discussion about violent/deadbeat dads/moms is irrelevant to this discussion. Whatever protections there were or were not before are still in place. Under the new system a spouse beater would go from being the “secondary parent” with supervised visitation to a “parent” with supervised parenting time. The only significant thing in the new law related to these issues is dealing with false allegations. If’s an unfortunate necessity when you have powerful laws to protect that can also be used for tactical advantage.
When it comes to schools, this should make it easier for the “other” parent to get information and such. It will take some time and education for the schools to get used to it and there will be people with the old agreements in the system for the next 20 years.
From what I’ve read, the new law is going forward only. If you’ve got a custody order, the only way you are going to replace it with a “parenting plan” is to show that something has significantly change. The same process and hurdles you would have had if you were trying to reverse custody under the old guidelines.
What this law should do is minimize the presumption of custody and level the playing field for Fathers to be significant parents to their children (as opposed to secondary parents or visitors). The only thing to argue about is how much time each parent gets. Of course, if the parents don’t agree, it’s off to court, as usual, but given the intent of the changes there’s no reason to assume that it will go to the “unreasonable” party or the default parent (Mother).
Detailed parenting plans could help a lot. My brother and his ex have disagreements that could have been cleared up with a detailed plan. She frequently uses her “primary” label as justification for being the “decider”. This leads to resentment and real hurt. He has guardedly complained that he feels like a checkbook with the right to visit his ex-wife’s kids.
It would be nice to see plans that look forward in time. When my brother and his wife split up, he had no real complaint that their child spent more time with her Mother. Now that she is older and more time is appropriate, he’s having a hard time getting mommy to let go and give him more parenting time. There’s also a financial incentive to not allow the extra time (which people freely project on men). He also lives in constant fear that his ex will move away with their child. Because his visitation was set to be appropriate for an infant and his ex seldom grants more time that the letter of the custody agreement, he knows that he’d have a difficult time stopping a move. It seems like these things could have been solved when they divorced IF they both were treated like equals.
These new laws probably would have saved me a lot of time, money and grief if they were in place when my ex-wife and I divorced.
My idea of divorced parenting was shared custody and hers was “Old School”. She’d get everything, I’d pay for everything, and I could visit the kids twice a month. She wouldn’t share and I couldn’t be a father under her plan, so we fought it out.
She made some mistakes and I worked hard, paid a bunch of money, and got lucky, and “won” custody of our children. When it became clear that she was going to loose, she wanted to accept my original offer and thought it was a great idea. Funny how the world looks different from the other side of the looking glass.
I’m an easy touch when it comes to extra visiting time. I don’t think I’ve ever said no (although I do say yes, but take them to their dentist appointment on the way
). I’d gladly change to something more like 50/50, but I need to be sure that it’s not just laying the ground work to implementing her old plan.
On the subject of schools, even though I’m the primary custodial parent, as a man, I get a bit of ‘tude from the females at school, or at least I did originally. I found that attending the meet your teacher type events helped a lot as did scheduling meetings with the individual teachers. It’s a lot harder to be a jerk to someone face to face. My ex originally scheduled her own report card conferences, but this year, we went together. The teachers did’s seem to care one way or the other, they are just happy for the parental involvement.
I bought a scanner/printer/FAX/hair dryer machine and programed a button to scan and email documents for mom. It pretty much stopped the valid complaints about being informed.
It saddens me to hear that fathers are tha only ones who feel violated by the family court system. What about the children?????
WORDS MEAN EVERYTHING! Whenever somebody hears that I (WAS) a secondary (INSULTING) parent all they could ask was “What on earth did you do to your child?” Never am Itreated fairly by doctors or educators and getting records is almost impossible! Finall…. I am an equeal parent… now it’s time for my child to bennifit with time sharing!
i hope this is true becuse i have had my little girl for the past 8 years and the courts just allowed a woman to take custdy of my little girl over a lie that she told she is dead in everyones eyes around but i will leave it up to the courts in a few weeks to deside but thank you fot the litt bit of hope
I so agree. My husband’s ex has manuvered evrything to create a negative situation and it isn’t going to matter what they call it because they can’t change her creating parental alienation.No matter what that was her plan – keep them that 1 extra day so she got more $ and lie to the point they hate him. That is the problem control freaks can’t be controlled thru the system, and they favor the mother no matter what.
I feel the frustration from so many people who have been hurt in the system where certain people are allowed to play head games with their children to get back at someone…to destroy the relationship and create such a hostile school, medical, living environment. It is so true that the non-custodial parent is alienated, particularlly with the control freak custodial parent – eventually it destroys the parent-child relationship if left unchecked. I used to think it would get better as the children got older. But now they are robots and think just as Sam does. I worry about what type adults they will even be.
I have a somewhat unique perspective in that I am a man with primary custody of the children and there is nothing wrong with their mother (drugs, booze, sanity). From my little perch, I can call BS on a lot of the typical justifications that are used to prefer mothers in custody situations. People pick and choose what they think is in the child’s best interest to justify their position. It’s simple human nature. The best way to tell is to reverse the situation.
My ex thought it was OK to move away with the kids. She said it wouldn’t diminish my role as a father, the kids would have a better life because she’d make more money, she need to be closer to family for emotional support to assist her aging parents, etc… the usual justifications for moving. Funny thing, now that I’m the primary custodian, she’s not interested in moving away, doesn’t seem concerned about getting a higher paying job (now that it means that she will have to pay me more if she does), and I guess her parents can just tough it out. She says she couldn’t live that far from the kids (but I was suppose to???).
Now, I realize that people will have to move. People loose their jobs and can’t find suitable work, have to go home to take care of aging parents, etc… probably hundreds of valid reasons. This is also just one example, near and dear to my hear because my ex moved with the kids and I had to fight to get them back.
Making men as likely to get custody will not make things better if the way it happens is if women lose. There will be mothers like the lady who posted above that feel alienated or unjustly treated by the system. I just don’t see how treating a child’s parent unfairly is truly in the childs best interest.
What needs to happen is that both parents are recognized and treated as equals. I really think that we need to have presumptive 50/50 physical custody. When deciding that 50/50 is not a good idea (and it won’t be for a lot cases), the decision criteria needs to be truly in the child’s (not in mom’s interest hiding behind the child) interest AND fair to both parents.
Has it been analyzed, figured out or decided if this new Law legally applies to divorce petitions filed before October 1, 2008. If anyone has some ideas or thoughts about this, You are welcome to respond or let me know. Bob
I found this information on the internet but see no answers to the questions of where we can find a copy of the law and will it apply to the modification process.
Thank you!
Can someone please tell me if one party is making 45,000 and the other is at 31,000 will the 45 have to pay the 31 any child support!!
Let me make the question a little better, with the new laws and if the judge does award 50-50 to the couple getting a divorce with one parent making $45,000 and the other $31,000 since child support is not being paid now on alot of these and now the parents split medical, school supplies etc., in this case would the 45 have to pay the 31 child support!!
Lee,
Florida calculates child support based on both parents NET income, determining a child’s “need”, with each parent contributing to the “need” based on a ratio of their incomes. In shared custody, a ratio of time spent with each parent is also a factor.
In round numbers, your incomes are about a 60/40 split. 45+31 = 76 45/76=.59
For one kid lets assume that your “need” would be about $1000, with the noncustodial parent paying $600 and the custodial parent “paying” herself $400. That estimate is probably a bit high, but the math is easy. There are online child support calculators that can get the exact amount for you. Do the calculation without medical costs and divy them up after all of the math is done.
For shared custody, the formula is
Parent1 share x 1.5 x %of Parent 2’s overnights – Parent2 Share x1.5*%of parent 1’s overnights (don’t include medical costs). In your case, it would be 600×1.5x.5-400×1.5x.5 = $150.
So do the traditional visitation plan and you’d pay $600 and share 50/50 and pay $150.
Medical costs and daycare are separate, so if you paid $150 a month for the child’s portion of health care, no money would have to exchange hands.
I see this law as good and bad. i agree non custodial parents should have more rights. However i also see this law as an easy way for deadbeat dads to beat child support.
for instance.
guy and girl are dating, she gets pregnant, he moves 200 miles away he sees the baby at the birth, then not for 4 more months(under advice from his attorney)
has helped mother in no way withj medical bills or formula, etc in all that time. before paternity was established he wanted the test he tried to tell her he was coming to take the baby from her house for a visit with his family.( before paternity established him as father)
also over the past years he has custody of 2 other children he worked 200 miles away from them and saw them maybe days a month while they were his sole responsibility. he had his father take care of the kids. a mand who has had 4 strokes and 1 heartattack in the last few years. he has stated in the past the only reason i fought for custody of my kids was so i would not have to pay child support she would have to pay me and he is not supporting his kids) hoiwever under the new law he could get rotating custody, so a 5 month old baby will be shuffled 200 miles each week to spend all her time with someone who is not medically fit to take care of her. or he will just say im not picking her up and under this rule he wont be ordered to pay support either. plus what happens in years when this child is school age go to school one week in wpb and one week in tampa. laws should be used to determine best interests of child not wishes of parents
Larry,
I don’t think the recent changes to the law do what you think. It requires a detailed parenting plan that BOTH parents agree to (not necessarily 50/50 custody). The plan is supposed to cover all aspects of the child’s life, so in your example, it would have to address how living 200 miles apart would be dealt with. If they are smart (it doesn’t sound like it), they would address how the plan would change as the child grows up.
If the parents can’t come to agreement, there are a bunch of factors that are to be considered in determining the time sharing arrangements of the parenting plan. One of the new criteria that relates to your example is how much outside assistance the parent requires. It’s not clear to me that needing a family member to make child rearing work would be a bad thing, or that someone who used professional child care would be less favorable than someone who used a grand parent, or that a parent who doesn’t/can’t/won’t work would be preferable to a parent who worked and used a family member or daycare.
People like to rail against the stereotypical deadbeat dad, and when it comes to shared custody, avoidance of child support is an accusation that people seem very comfortable making. People seem unconcerned about mothers who refuse to share custody even though it means that they will typically get less money. Both sides can be cynically dismissed as purely financial maneuvers.
Under the new laws, just like the old ones, if you don’t abide by the terms of the divorce agreement, you can be held in contempt of court, or the agreement can be changed. So if someone agrees to 50/50 parenting plan to avoid paying child support (which only means $0 child support if both parents incomes are the same), and then doesn’t live up to the agreement, then it’s back to court with a revised parenting plan, and an adjusted child support to go with the new parenting plan.
What the changes should do is put Mothers and Fathers on an even playing field. By eliminating words like custody, it should keep one parent from using the “primary” custodian title to negatively impact their child’s other parent.
Time will tell when it comes to results, but in words, the new law makes both parents equal, so it should stop the automatic preference of mothers over fathers when it comes to custody issues. Some of the criteria still seems to favor women, but I guess Rome wasn’t built in a day.
I sorry it is hard for me to understand that analytical math problem and not to sound dumb, but could someone put it it laymans terms for me “will the person making $45,000 have to pay the person making $31,000 the $600 a month plus the $150 or just the $600 or nothing at all.
Sorry I’m dazed and confused!!
Lee,
The $45,000 parent would owe the $31,000 parent $600 a month if the $45,000 parent had the child less than 30% of the overnights.
If the $45,000 parent has the child 50% of the overnights, then the $45,000 parent would owe the $31,000 parent $150 per month.
If the $45,000 parent has the child somewhere between 30% and 50% of the overnights, then it would be more than $150 and less than $600.
Keep in mind that this is an estimate. It will vary from state to state (does your state address reduced child support for time spent with the other parent). To be closer to correct, you need to use one of the online child support calculators and enter the NET incomes (not the gross). It might be $400 or it might be $800.
The main point is that only way there will be no child support is if both parents share the child equally (# of overnights), and they make the same amount of money. The whole point behind child support is an attempt to ensure that the home environment for the child is as best as it can be and approximately equal at both parents homes.
Work out an overnight plan that works for everyone, and let the child support work itself out.
Make sure that your plan covers what is covered by the support and what is not and how what isn’t covered is divided. Are doctor Co-pays, braces, eye glasses, hospital, summer camps, fees for joining a soccer team, Prom dress/suit? Some of these this should be covered in a $600 payment, but in shared custody ($150 payment) should be split 50/50 or based on income (in your case 60/40).
If the divorce was filed last march and will not be finalized until after october 1st, this March do I go off the new laws that started Oct 1st or the old law!!
The simple fact is that as a society, we don’t value fathers. I understand that women may feel that their fathers, or perhaps men in general, have failed them in some way, but don’t know why they don’t feel responsible for the world that their sons will live in. Maybe changing the labels we attach to fathers will help change our society, but I wouldn’t expect it to happen soon. It took Lincoln and MLK to create a society where Barack Obama could become president, fathers have protesters in superman suits and Alec Baldwin…
These judges need to make up their mind for divorces filed before October 1 some judges are going off of the old laws and some off of the new laws. WHAT CAN BE DONE IF ANYTHING PLEASE HELP IF YOU KNOW! OF COURSE I WANT THE NEW LAWS BUT WHAT AM I TO DO IF MY JUDGE WANTS TO GO OFF THE OLD LAWS!! A CO-WORKER FILED LAST MAY AND HIS JUDGE IS GOING OFF THE NEW LAWS!
I have an ex that has been arrested more times than I can remember…he has assaulted me many times and I have pressed charges each time. He has stood in front of our child and called me every name in the book just because I asked for half of a dental copay…he is an alcoholic and is now living with a felon..he is trying to get our child half time…tell me where that makes sense or how that is what is best for our child??? He is an abusive, angry, sick person and the courts want to give him more time just because he donated some sperm??? He has never once gone to a school function or sport function of our child and has NEVER called on my child’s birthday or Christmas…really great job Florida. Thank you for protecting my child.
I agree, the system cares more about mothers that fathers, I have a case pending in court and the judge wants to go back to the old agreement when she is the one with a TPO, i care too much for my son that I decided to take the law on my own hands and take my case off the lawyers that charge too much, do too little and basically take advantage of you, there are ways to fight, but for fathers is rather hard, due to the fact that our society sees fathers as sperm donors, and child support payers. with this new law I am hoping to get 50/50 just because the mother did not really care whether i spent time with my son or not, she just care about the check she got every 15 days, now I have temp custody of my son and I care for him more that she ever did, but the old law will return my child to the mother… now tell if that is right???… equal rights equal time, no matter what, thank you florida.
It’s not just about mothers, there are many male judges out there who do not like women.
I am a mother who went and is still going through a nasty divorce for over four years. I do not have the money to pay for an attorney and to continue to battle in court, yet my ex does not pay for his attorney. Thus, he was awarded “primary” a year ago and we have “shared parental responsibility.” He unitarily withdrew our children from the school they had been going to since kindergarten and took them out of the community and environment they were used to since birth. The judge did and still continues to do NOTHING about this. My ex has not reimbursed me one penny since we separated for his court ordered medical expenses for our children and the court does NOTHING. I purchased a cell phone so I am able to talk to my children daily and he throws it away saying they lost it. My children cry and ask me why I don’t call and care about them. He signs them up for activities, without telling me and does not put my name as their mother on the registration info and uses his girlfriend as emergency contact, as well as the school records. During the summer, he signs them up for camp and will not tell me where they are and tells our children not to tell me. My child told me and she was grounded for a month without food because she told me. I even have a letter signed by ex to the camp saying that I am not allowed to be on their property or ever pick them up my own children. The judge is aware of all this and still does NOTHING. My ex even had our oldest child sleep on the couch so his girlfriend’s children could have their own rooms. I was a stay at home mother and have done nothing wrong to deserve this. I miss being with my children and being involved in their everyday lives, as they feel the same. It’s not just about mothers and fathers, it’s about parents and they should be treated equal as the natural parents of their children. Fathers do evil and hurtful things to the mothers and vice versa. What’s sad is that they are trying to get to the “other parent” but they forget to realize the damage they are doing to their own children. Is there any justice out there?
florida’s new laws are rediculious. My daugher ismgoing threw a child support hearing since ,the baby was two weeks old.He lied in court 3 timeas to the judge about being the father. A paternity was finally order by the courts. He is the father . Before that he would not have any thing to do we the baby. Now all of a sudden he is this great father. He has put my daughter through holy hell. Name calling at]nd so forth. She has ask him from the kidness of her heart feeling sorry for him. and let him spend time with him. He still wont help her in any way finacially. He said you wanted this kid not me. You deal with it. that is no way to be a good father to me. Thats why the still should deal with all the dead beat dads here in florida. I know all men are not alike. There are plent of good fathers out there. But if a judge was to look at this father rap sheet , he doesnt desere any rights to the baby. I hope you can understand my feeings toward this new law”.
thank you
I am going through the same thing but as a father i also recently went through a divorce and now custody issues. For almost two years i had joint custody of my three minor children and up to three month’s ago i went from being with my kid’s every other week for a week at a time to a “part time dad” every other weekend a total of 96 hrs a month i get to spend time with my kid’s all because of a Judge that was new to family law and even in her own word’s at one of the hearing’s said this family law is all new to me and i have to work out “the kinks” my kid’s are devistated by this and now my ex is alienating from them not allowing them to call me when they are with her and just completely trying to remove me from their live’s completely! Even after a social investigation was done and the investigator ’s recommendation to the court that i appeared to be the better parent that i was to be awarded primary custody since my kid’s have their own rooms ,bed;s and space at my home and my ex lives in her moms house along with other adult’s and my kids sleep on the floor or with one of the adults in the house. I think that both parents should have EQUAL time with the kids they both were involved in bringing them into this world ! I think the Florida law on custody down right stink’s and there should be someone or something be done about it!!!! It’s not fair to the kid’s involved and its a shame that my ex is only concerned about her feeling’s and what she wants then what the kid’s want that is what is important the childrens feelings and need’s! Signed angry part time DAD!!!
Funny how the laws changed effective 10/2008 and it is 02/25/2009 and the paperwork reflecting the changes in the wording is still not available at any court house for pro se litigants. can’t get divorced, can’t file for modification, can’t take any legal action without an attorney. it’s ridiculous..
I am also a non-custodial Mother. Not due to being unfir but due to not having money for a lawyer and my daughter was very physically sick over all the fighting so I allowed him to have primary care. We have joint physical and legal custody however, he seemes to think he can do whatever he wishes with our daughter who is now 14. Recentally he took her and her put on birth control without any discussion with myself or our daughter. She would like to come live with me but he is completely against it. In his opinion I am an unfit Mother and I don’t understand this at all. My daughter means the world to me and every decision in my life has always been made with her in consideration. He has made every second of both our lives a fight just to keep our relationship. Is there any help out there for us? I have called everyone to include the Governors Office over the last 6 years and no one wants to help me it seems. He is so bitter and mean even after 6 years. Can anyone help me understand why? Keep in mind he asked for the divorce and all I did was try to keep my daughter with me at every turn because she has asked me to.
I’m wondering if a parent, either one, after a few years of a problem-free custody agreement can go to the court to change the agreement without reason. Does there need to be a reason (neglect, making less money, abuse, etc.) for a parent to request a change in custody or can they simply request the change because they want more time?
Any help is appreciated.
Fathers do get the raw end of the deal. I got stuck paying 4-6 times guideline support simply because I had run out of money and couldn’t afford to go to trial. My year to date income on the day we settled was $600 and yet I was handed $1,000/ month in obligation plus the entire mediation costs (went on a family member’s credit card) and $5,000 of her lawyer’s bills (borrowed from my elderly father).
So I directly pay 100% of health insurance for me and my son, 100% of life insurance and the support I pay his mom covers 100% of daycare and an extra $300 to cover 100% of diapers, etc. There is almost no contribution on her part.
I have him almost half of the time, which is good, but I shouldn’t have been treated like I had to buy the time from his mom-SHE DIDN’T OWN IT!
I raised this child from day 1. He came to work with me (I made a daycare in my office) for most of his first year. The custody evaluator was handed a ton of evidence displaying a gross level of irresponsibility on the part of his mother. They asked ZERO questions about any of those events to her, me or anybody else in the 7 months they took to complete the evaluation. They ended up saying that because I had (diligently compiled) provided all of this negative material about his mother (her actions), I couldn’t foster a loving relationship between them and recommended her as primary.
The Florida Bar wouldn’t do anything against this lawyer even when provided with a list of evidence a mile long that not a single question was asked about.
Dads need to take the system back by ANY means possible.
An excellent example of a parenting plan can be see at this link.
http://12circuit.state.fl.us/ProgramsampServices/FamilyDivision/ProposedParentingPlans/tabid/240/Default.aspx
There are 4 versions to adapt to specific situations. It covers basic, long distance, saftey focused, and highly structured.
Has anyone been through the new process? What are the actual differences from before. Is it words or is there an actual difference?
I came from a 6 yrs Domestic Violence Marriage, My ex tried to commit Suicide 4 times in 7 yrs, is been in a Mental Institution twice for Anger Management problems and people out there think is fair? it is of there has been NO ABUSE but when you are abuse by that person is actually a very scary situation.., Im still afraid of My ex husband I believe that any Judge should 1st make a background CHECK on either mother’s or Father’s before making any decisions. I don’t think this is a FAIR LAW… Florida is a Horrible State for Mother or Fathers suffering with Domestic Violence
Does anyone know of this new law is retroactive? My son has lived with me for 8 years, his father never paid child support and now he wants joint custody.
Just a thought to put out there…how many moms would give up child support in order to get a vindictive ex to leave you alone? they should allow you to do that if you can afford it………..my ex would not be chasing me for custody if I could somehow not collect child support from him…child support is his issue as is many fathers..many fathers would not be so interested if it werent for child support issues……if you dont want child support you shouldnt be forced to receive it.
Though the new law is good for divorced parents, it does not cover single parents whom have never been married. It is very biased that a father who all of a sudden decides that is what he wants to be can get 50/50. It is a very unfair law to single mothers. I know from personal experience that this law is biased. Why should a mother’s rights be taken away and given to someone who all of a sudden decides they want to be a parent. I think the laws needs to define the difference between divorcees and those who have never been married. As well as how long the other parent has been involved in the child’s life.
Linda (34):
Your husband IS paying support. You are living mortgage and rent-free. You just can’t see the money. It is YOUR responsibility to pay for the utilities, food, etc. IF you still want to live in this house. If you lived in your OWN house, you would have to pay everything. Get a clue, girl. You are not married anymore and those bennies are gone forever. Grow up, be responsible, get a job, and PAY YOUR fair share for the children and take care of your own support. Kudos to him for paying the mortgage! At least you have a roof over your head. And why in the world would you even WANT to stay in a house that holds bad memories? Looks like you are using this as a weapon. Get out and get your own place. Start new memories and set an example to your children. Cut the umbilical cord, for everyone’s sake. And so what if he gets “the house”? Let him have it and stand up on your own.